Introduction to strength training

[Tyson]

I would like to make a brief introduction to the topic of strength training. As an advocate of training that builds FUNCTIONAL strength we cannot ignore the tremendous rewards that can be gained through the practice of strength training. If you are limiting yourself to bodyweight training you are missing out on a large part of your body's true potential (as would be the case if you neglected bodyweight training and solely practiced strength training).

So I encourage you all to get involved, ask questions, READ starting strength, learn technique and start lifting some weight heavier than yourself.

[Nic Scheelings]

Couldn't agree more. Tho i have come to hate the term functional strength, i mean is it strictly functional for me to snatch 100 kg, do a one arm hs, a planche ect?.. no bit it's still badass and makes you a better mover but functional? not really. This is just semantics tho.

I also don't love rippetoe, he basically advocates low bar back squats for every single athlete no matter what, personally hate low bar back squats, feel like they mask a persons true lower body strength due to the abbreviated ROM but that is me.

On top of gymnastics, yes I feel we should weight lift and also sprint, jump, martial arts, climb ect..

Will this impact the ability to be the best gymnast possible? Probably, but you will be a better overall athlete in my opinion plus it's more fun to be able to do many things.

Tho I do feel that if you are doing gymnastics, you don't really need to use weights for the upper body. For upper body gymnastics is King

just my thoughts

[Tyson]

I knew posting here would lure you out Nic

i have come to hate the term functional strength, i mean is it strictly functional for me to snatch 100 kg, do a one arm hs, a planche ect?

To clarify, I am using the term ‘functional’ to describe training for practical purposes over aesthetics.

Olympic lifting fits the category of functional training (as does sprinting, martial arts, climbing etc.). Planche training certainly does as well (as does all bodyweight).

I also don't love rippetoe, he basically advocates low bar back squats for every single athlete no matter what, personally hate low bar back squats, feel like they mask a persons true lower body strength due to the abbreviated ROM but that is me.

I’m aware of your disdain for Rippetoe. Great! Please post any information/evidence you have that offers a different perspective (such as consolidating reasons for high bar back squats over low bar back squats (although I am quite sure he mentions both in his book)). I would definitely recommend reading STARTING STRENGTH by Mark Rippetoe to most people interested in lifting weights. It helps teach proper technique for back squat, deadlift, bench press, overhead press and cleans. Knowledge of proper technique is severely lacking when I look around my gym and if my gyms patrons reflect the majority of gyms (and I assume it does) then it is essential reading. As stated before, please post any useful material for the other members and myself to read. Nic, I know you’re self-taught (coached now), did you read any books or websites for technique? What were your main problem areas when you transitioned being coached with your lifting?

On top of gymnastics, yes I feel we should weight lift and also sprint, jump, martial arts, climb ect..

I agree, this thread is for all other types of training so please post any information you have on any of these topics that you feel would be beneficial to everyone else.

[Nic Scheelings]

Well I don't hate Rippetoe, and I agree starting strength is probably a good place to start. However he just teaches some things that I don't agree with.

Re: High bar squats vs low bar squats

All strength training really follows the said principle (specific adaptation to implied demand) When we snatch when we clean and jerk we catch the bar in an upright position, the position of a high bar squat (ideally of course). This is why weightlifters squat this way, obviously to most closely mimic what you are going to do in the lifts. Yet Rip recommends low bar squatting for weightlifters! Why on Earth would you want to train in a movement pattern that's very different from how you're going to lift? Now I'm not saying low bar squats won't make you stronger but it just is not going to crossover to strength in the position where you're going to catch the bar.

I feel this is akin to performing heaps of overhead pressing to improve your HSPU. I think overhead presses are great, but should a gymnast do lots of overhead pressing to increase his strength at Handstand pushups? I don't think so, yeah it will make you stronger but you need to get on your hands and mainly do handstand pushups, their may be some crossover but most of your strength comes from practicing the movement you want to do. Maybe these things as assistance exercises, but assistance exercises are a very small part of your training.

Here's a nice article from catalyst strength about the role of strength in weightlifting it may be a bit of a rebuttal
to the Rip article on this topic.

http://www.catalystathletics.com/articl ... ticleID=70

But in general yes your right your average person will learn a lot and probably do really well with something like this, it's just I have some different opinions. Ah hope this rant makes some sort of sense.

In terms of first learning to weight lift I actually used an instructional dvd a lot, called explosive lifting for sports, I must have watched it about 15 times. I feel it broke everything up really nicely and was a great way to get your head around it. Also I just love watching weightlifting and i think that really helps, you watch it and maybe subconsciously you pick up on the general idea.

When transitioning to being coached the main issues I had was I was not consistent. I would do something different almost every time, my coach was like look I don't care what you do (within reason) as long as you always do the same thing, you lift the same all the time. If the weights heavy that doesn't you spend an extra minute over the bar, develop a routine that works and keep it. So we just worked on developing a consistent starting position, time over bar all that sort of thing.

Probably the other big issues where not finishing my second pull, just wanting to get under the bar and also I did have some trouble with breathing with cleans for awhile. I kept blacking out which I think was mainly a timing issue. But I've made huge improvements with a coach, and hopefully lift some pretty big weights by the end of the year.

Currently Snatch 105, C & J 125

Did you have any luck finding a coach?

[Tyson]

I can see vaguely where you're coming from. I would say the back squat (BSQ) doesn't particularly mimic catching the bar in the first place as the bar is too posterior to the catching position in a clean (regardless if it is a high or low bar BSQ). In regards to the low bar BSQ being very different to how you're going to lift, you can see in this video (that you may have already seen) that Rippetoe argues the low bar BSQ replicates the pull that translates over to cleans, snatches and deadlifts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC5-g1Ugmgc

I can imagine how a DVD would help. I used a combination of youtube, people in the gym, books and forum advice. I would still say I am in need of some professional help, haha. That's good advice about picking a routine in your lift and staying consistant, I am aware of this but had had forgotten, good to be reminded!

No luck finding a coach yet Once I'm not studying full time I'll have mo' monies for a good coach. I'll maybe just fly down and train with you Nic!

[Nic Scheelings]

Sorry I meant the back squat position is a more similar position to what you will be in a snatch although of course on your back whereas front squat is a more similar position to the clean.

I haven't seen this video before thanks! However I still disagree with a few statements.

1. don't agree that low bar BSQ is easier on the back. Often results in a rounded lower back shifting a ton of weight. Just can't agree with this statement. Especially the nicely stacked position of a correct high bar BSQ.

2. Like I said the high bar BSQ is going to put in the same positions as a catch for a snatch so it has some specific relevance.

3. As far as it being similar movement to the pull. We already do pulls, and i personally feel if i were to get into the position that I do when i pull with a squat I would daisy my back. I tend to favor a highish hip position (don't kno why just feels natural). Squatting that way I feel would be seriously dangerous.

He wants reasoning, I've given mine as I'm sure many people could. I don't think he's really looked too hard for peoples reasons. I don't like him painting himself as the only person who actually thinks about what they are doing, many people can give valid reasons behind why they do the things they do. In the end we all do make a choice as to what makes most sense to us.

[nicotography]

Sorry to revive an old tread. I was curious as to the programming involved in combining bodyweight exercises and weight training. If I want to do 3 days a week of rings strength exercises, can I still fit in a weight session? Let's say I deicide to do MoWeFr rings and Sat weights. Would you say that's too much, as I would be doing my weights routine after recovering from Friday's rings? Also, is weights once a week sufficient to see improvement?

I understand that programming can be trying different schedules out and seeing what works for one personally, but I am interested in your input. Would adding in cardio (probably a combination of rowing, running, or cycling) TuTh be too much?